Kind Leadership and Diverse Voices Rising – a conversation with Delia Lazaroiu, Senior Data Analyst Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) UK, trustee for Equality Starts at Home

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today’s guest is Delia Lazaroiu, Senior Data Analyst and the title of our conversation is Kind leadership and diverse voices rising.
 
I had the joy of meeting Delia when she was working at the Charity Commission for England and Wales. Delia engaged with the leadership development work, and with myself and Emily Court. Since then we have kept in touch via LInkedIn, and as always Delia is immensely supportive and passionate about all she does. I am looking forward to hearing her story, and to getting to know her through this episode.

In our conversation Delia offers valuable insights into: 

• Making progress by aspiring to be the least knowledgeable person in that room
• Finding your tribe and thriving 
• Living in and leading with gratitude 
• Living a meaningful life as a leader and human by helping others and offering kindness 

Delia's Three Key Encouragements to Leaders 

1. Lead by lifting each other up
2. Stay true to your values
3. Visit places not visited by all your peers

Contact Delia:

LinkedIn - Delia Lazaroiu  

Instagram - @delialazaroiu

To listen to other Leaders in Conversation with me Anni Townend go to my website, www.annitownend.com

A big thank you to Coco O’Brien for the wonderful intro and outro music, for the lovely design, and for the excellent editing, sound production and marketing of the podcast.

To contact me Anni Townend do email me on anni@annitownend.com visit my website www.annitownend.com, subscribe to my newsletter and follow me on LinkedIn.  I look forward to connecting with you, thank you for listening.

Transcript

Anni Townend: Hello, welcome, and welcome back to Leaders in Conversation with me, Anni Townend. Today's guest is Delia Lazaroiu, Senior Data Analyst, and the title of our conversation is Kind Leadership and Diverse Voices. Delia works at the Department of Work and Pensions here in the UK, and she's a trustee for Equality Starts at Home.

Leaders in Conversation is the podcast in which leaders share their life and leadership story, the people, the places and experiences that have shaped them, their values, beliefs, passion and purpose. All to encourage you and inspire you to be even more confident and courageous in your leadership. If you're not already, please do subscribe to the podcast, review and share it.

One of the wonderful things about having met Delia and recommending the podcast to her is that I know you do share the podcast widely, Delia. So very big welcome to you to Leaders in Conversation. I had the joy of meeting you when you were working, not at DWP, the Department of Work and Pensions, but at the Charity Commission for England and Wales.

And I remember that you really engaged in the leadership development work. I remember Emily Court and I, we talked about the three principles of engage, Being engaging, and Building your relationships and Managing your impact. The three principles of Engage from Future Engage, Deliver.

And you did all three of those things. You are extremely engaging. You were very quick to build a relationship with both myself and Emily and very much managing.your impact and being considerate of your impact on others and being conscious of that. So I'm really excited to be in conversation with you today and to hear more about who you are and your passion and purpose.

Delia Lazaroiu: Thank you so much, Anni. I'm so glad to be here today. I've been listening to your podcast and as I shared with you before it was lovely to always listen to feel how you are holding your guests and how you supported them to share their stories. Many stories I resonated with, there was somebody who was also an immigrant from a different country sharing her story about creativity and the family values. Thank you so much for the kind introduction 

Anni Townend: You're very welcome. I'm looking forward not only to hearing your story, but also to the insights that you, I know, are going to offer to all leaders, but especially to leaders who maybe have had less experience in a more senior leadership role, but who are already leading. 

And your first insight is making progress by aspiring to be the least knowledgeable person in that room, which is already intriguing.

The second one is finding your tribe and thriving. 

The third living in and leading with the tribe. 

And finally living a meaningful life as a leader, helping others and offering kindness. 

So over to you, Delia, who are the people, places and experiences, the turning points in your life that have made you and made you the leader that you are today?

Delia Lazaroiu: The last thing I'm going to give insight on the gratitude the gratitude it actually links very well with who I am because I came to the UK seven years ago, but before that I lived in Romania. And I was raised by my grandparents, by my grandma and my grandpa. My mom was also involved, but they were the main figures in my life. And from grandma, really, I learned how to be grateful for everything you have, how to offer kindness and how to support and lift up others. Grandma was a person who didn't do a lot of study she only went to school for four years.

She had a very basic level of writing and reading but that still didn't stop her from being the fantastic woman she is, and I'm so glad I still have her today and didn't stop her from offering so much to the world. And that inspired me to take it forward. And yes from grandpa as well. I took this determination to get things done and get things done in my way. And to not let anybody tell me I can't do it. He's a person of great strength. He has built the entire house they're living in. Everything in our house is made by him. So I got the you can't tell me I can't do it from him. I will go and do it.

But in my development, they are different. phases of my life where different people influenced me and impacted me. So after leaving my hometown and coming to England, that was the first time I left the country, came to a complete new country, complete new culture, never left my village really.

Anni Townend: Delia, what was the prompt for you to leave your village to come to the UK?

Delia Lazaroiu: I think it's exactly the point I wanted to make about making progress by aspiring to be the least knowledgeable in the room. I always thought, okay, so where can I go? Where's the furthest I can go? And I still have a chance to get in and to learn from other people who know maybe more than me.

And that was England and studying abroad for me. I was thinking I can just aim for that. Let's see what's going to happen. And I've got accepted to all five universities I applied for. 

And that's why I encourage people to do that, because I did it, but I don't think I was very aware of how scary it could be, which is great, because at that age, I was 19.

You don't really think about all the consequences. So I came to the UK, I went to my first day of university, and bear in mind my family doesn't speak English. My friend don't really speak English fluently in school. We had one hour of English per week. And I went to the first lecture and then I realized I don't really understand what they're saying.

They were speaking so quickly for me. And then I had the moment where I had to take notes and I never thought about am I writing in Romanian? Am I writing in English? And I had the moment when I thought, I don't speak English. What I'm going to do? And here I am seven years later inspiring others, supporting others, giving them the social capital I didn't have.

Because this is so important as an immigrant moving to a new culture. What's all right to say here? Or how do you do your taxes? How do you apply to this job? What do you have to say? And that's really what inspired me again to support others and lift others up.

Anni Townend: And listening to you now it's as if you have been speaking English for a long time.

Delia Lazaroiu: Thank you. I do believe, this is a good achievement, the importance of throwing yourself into something, not really knowing what's going to be, living through the consequences and advancing, because if I haven't put myself in that situation where I panicked for a week straight I won't be able to graduate. I won't be here today. Yeah, encourage everyone to do that. 

Anni Townend: Real encouragement there to go for something, even when you don't know what it is. What it's going to be like, how it's going to be like and in fact, being open to not knowing in the moment. Which is very like leadership. because so much of leadership is stepping into the unknown. Obviously, there are guidelines and we can learn from each other and learn from the help that's given to us by others.

And this is something that's really important to you, I think is helping others and the people who've helped you along the way. 

Delia Lazaroiu: Yeah. So in university, I would say the main person who changed my trajectory really is the person who believed in me enough to apply for a grant in second year university to do a research and I did it on feminism in Eastern Europe, which was very interesting.

This is something that passionates me deeply, as from my social media, I'm a great advocate for gender equality and women's empowerment. This teacher Kitty Nichols, I'm gonna just drop names here because I would love her to listen to this. She fully believed I belong there and I was thinking, oh, I definitely have no chance.

Even if I scored the lowest, I am the least knowledgeable person in the room. It's still all right. Because she gave me this confidence, I actually realized I do belong there. And I wasn't the least knowledgeable person in the room. And then we went to present at international conferences and connect with people.

And I think that really has been a pivotal moment in how I see myself because I also studied sociology and criminology and we learn about labeling theory. What you call a person is what they become. And that's so important in leadership. I'm calling you great enough, smart enough to do this, to be independent and go and do it.

You don't need my help. You have all the tools and telling people that makes people that. So I think, yeah, I think that's really, really beautiful. 

Anni Townend: I think it's really beautiful. Having somebody that really believes in you is so important. And I often say, and you may have heard me say this when we were working together on the leadership program, that without people believing in me, along the way, and I'm thinking like you, of particular people who believed in me, and when I was doubting myself and lacked the confidence, who said, you can do this, and encouraged me and supported me to have a go, I wouldn't really recognize myself then now, because I have been believed in, and I really believe that we all have potential to become more of who we are. And in fact, the podcast, and it's so lovely what you said about the podcast is one of the ways in which I want to help leaders like yourself share their stories to inspire others.

It's very much driven by a desire that I have for us to learn from each other, to be inspired by each other because it's so often the stories that we share that people then connect with and think about themselves and think If they can, I can or yes, that's how I felt then and now I feel different or I feel more able to do something more encouraged, and I think already people listening to our conversation will be massively encouraged by your stepping into the unknown, not really knowing you were stepping into the unknown, but not really knowing what you didn't know.

Delia Lazaroiu: Absolutely. Yes. And I think it's so beautiful in exploring that and always having something going for you that will show you what you don't know. And actually my partner always says like, when did you apply for that? Like I don't have any idea where you apply for all of these things and you go to all of these things because I always have things going that gives me energy and I can give back to people.

And I encourage people to step in into this rhythm and if it works for them to go for it. This is how you actually can connect with other people as well and you can find more about yourself. I had an idea and I want to tell you about it.

it was about the finding your tribe and people who believe in you.because it is very easy to isolate yourself when you come into a new environment when people don't speak like you, they don't have ideas like you.

But what really worked for me, and again, this is another encouragement to young leaders is to go out there, even the things that they think might not be directly related to what they're doing and just speak with people and go and connect. And always seek at every event you go in or every organization to find that person that resonates with you and then you gather your tribe slowly. I feel like I did in the past few years and Charity Commission, Department for Work and Pensions. And these fantastic people I found and I connect and they do power my energy every day. And this makes a huge difference on just how you look at the world and what you want and how you see yourself in the mirror. 

Anni Townend: And you've mentioned both places in which you've worked and are currently working at the Department of Work and Pensions.

And for listeners who don't know that is a part of the Civil Service, as is the Charity Commission. So both of your jobs your roles have been within the Civil Service. And there's something about being in the Civil Service, where have you found your tribe, your people? 

Delia Lazaroiu: Yes. Yes.

And actually I had two other roles before one of them was in the public sector, but not civil service. And the first one was in the private sector and after these roles, I understood that this is where I belong in the service of people. I believe in supporting others and having a greater impact on the world and I always aim to do so it was really clear to me, actually, when I spoke quite recently with a recruiter who called me, I said, I don't want to go in the private sector just yet. Maybe I'll change my mind if it has a great mission.

But the mission is really important to me as is very clear from the things I do outside my job and how I aim to develop myself and how I aim to support gender equality again. to my role as a trustee. This gives me great reward, really. And it just feels right. And you know when it feels right.

Anni Townend: And it's so important, isn't it, to work in an environment that feels right, and that you are able, as you are, to align with. So you're passion and purpose to be in service aligns with that of the organization within which you work, which is the civil service, in service of others to make it better for others.

And you're very much about helping people to make it better for them and to do that with kindness. You've also mentioned Delia, which I'd like to pick up on with you is your dissertation, which was on feminism in Romania, you're very passionate about all things gender equality.

Where has that passion come from

Delia Lazaroiu: Going back to who raised me and the great qualities I saw in grandma, and that inspired me to be a better person growing up and developing this analytical way of thinking, I also understood the chances that they didn't have and they couldn't have in the village we were coming from. And a lot of situations that didn't really sit right with me. And then as I advanced in civil service, I advanced in my professional role, I also understood that we are actually not as advanced as people want you to believe in terms of equality.

There is so much to do. There was so much to do a few years ago. Especially now, in the context we are living today with everything that's happening in the West, but also everything that's happening back home it seems like rights are rolling back and it's very hard to just be a witness. And do nothing. And that's why I also wanted to get involved and to have my little contribution on. I do strongly believe as a feminist, as a human rights practitioner, we are not that all free. So I'm not free until we are all free. And I feel like we are so far away from being all free. And actually, it seems a bit even more scary than it was in the past few years.

And I was actually thinking recently, what I can do more. And I think it's great if you can take people on this journey with you, so you can do more together. People have taken me on their journey. And also very important. I want to mention this one. I wasn't always. so open and feisty about it because I came from the environment I came from.

We never discussed equality in school with my friends or patriarchal society, any of these terms. And I really resisted them in university, to be honest. I've done my research because I had to do it, but I was still unsure. And slowly, I progressed and I took this path and this is why now I have so much patience with people who are taking this path and I'm calling people in, not calling them out because there is so much division out there.

We don't need another person to call out somebody to tell them, Oh, you're a bit silly for this. Oh, you don't know anything. Just have patience with people. And again, inspired from my own path and looking back six years. I know if you believe in people and if you support them, they will get, they'll get there.

Anni Townend: That's lovely what you say Delia and I think the phrase calling them in that often it is ignorance and or prejudice based on not really knowing that unknown and so the way in which you are being very open to the not knowing and then being open to being helped and guided and supported in return, guiding, helping, and support women, especially.

And I think what you say about calling people in and educating and helping each other is so important, particularly in a world where there are countries and places where freedom of speech, being able to be educated, to be able to make choices, to have the freedom, to walk freely, to talk freely is being restricted and constrained more in some countries right now.

and that brings me to a sense of gratitude that I have that I live in a country where there is a civil service of which you're part and that people like you are part of it, but also that there is freedom. I realize I feel grateful every day that I have the freedoms that I've got and that not everybody does in this country.

We're speaking in the UK today, but nevertheless, there are more freedoms available to me and more responsibility that come with that and I get from you a strong sense of responsibility towards helping others.

Delia Lazaroiu: Yes, and the gratitude I think is more acute for immigrants and I saw that online. I heard other people speaking freely about it because you know what you have today and especially in the context of the war in Eastern Europe. I woke up one morning, and I was able to still enjoy my coffee in peace with other people couldn't. So as an immigrant in the West, you wake up and you are more aware of all the privileges you have, because you know the people from home, you know them personally, you grew up with them, and you know what they don't have. And this gratitude, this feeling of gratitude. You carry with you continuously and it's a lovely place to be really being thankful for everything you have and not always wishing for more, but not being sad and devastated that you're not getting it, it's really grounding you as a person.

I say thank you a lot, which I think it's really important to say thank you more than we say, please more, give me more. And coming back to the tribe, really. In my current role I'm also part of initiatives that help people from disadvantaged backgrounds advancing in career within the civil service.

And this is the tribe that I'm speaking about again. I'm working with such fantastic women, because it's just a group of women, it just happened who work on this program called Aspire. And they just light up that energy. in me every day. And it's so great to find this little tribe that lights up the light in you and the energy in you.

Because we were speaking at FED about a different type of energy as a leader. 

Anni Townend: We did. And FED for listeners who don't know is Future Engage Deliver. I think I mentioned it earlier. And for listeners who would like to read more about Future Engage Deliver. There's Steve Radcliffe's marvelous book, Leadership, Plain and Simple.

Delia Lazaroiu: Actually there are certain people I go for certain energies and I found them all and it's so great when you just have them there and you know they are there for you and you are there for them. For them as well when they need you. 

Anni Townend: The energies are so important, aren't they?

we're recording our conversation in the winter in the Northern Hemisphere here in the UK and Paying attention to our bodies is really important. We spend a lot of time on teams meetings and in meetings, virtual meetings and the importance of looking after our physical energies. It's vital, I think, as leaders, as is our mental energy, keeping that open mind, the energy of the intellect, that growth mindset and sense of possibility and positivity that we get from each other so often, as well as from reading and maybe writing, but also from conversing. the other two energies emotion and spirit energy, how we feel and all four of the energies, physical intellect, emotion and spirit energy are intertwined. 

Delia Lazaroiu: And you are speaking about being now in December in the winter and this aligns very well with the theme of gratitude because this is the month when we have the chance to analyze everything we've done for the past 12 months and be grateful for what we got.

And actually when I was doing the exercise the other day, I was thinking at the beginning of the year when we had our session, you asked us, what's the word for the year for you and I remembered my word. 

Anni Townend: What was your word for 2024? 

Delia Lazaroiu: It was ‘ask’ and I asked in 2024 and I got back and I'm so thankful for it.

Anni Townend: And do you already have a sense of what your word is for 2025? 

Delia Lazaroiu: I think there are still a few pieces to fall in place in December. And depending on what falls in place in December, that's going to determine the word for 2025. But this is a good idea, actually, to give it a bit of time and think about it, and maybe encourage others to think about it too, with me, and have a conversation.

Anni Townend: Have a conversation about it and starting to think about it now at the turning of the calendar year from December into January, it's an intention, what is my word for this month, for the rest of the year, whenever you're listening to this conversation pausing for thought, thinking about, what is my word?

And Delia, as we come towards the end of our conversation, what are your three key encouragements to leaders of all ages, but especially the leader who is stepping into the unknown and may or may not therefore be younger, may actually be an older leader somebody with experience, but who is stepping, encouraged by our conversation, into the unknown.

Delia Lazaroiu: The main theme for me is always helping each other as much as you can. So the encouragement is lead by lifting each other up. Don't just go on your path alone. On the way, you have to bring people with you, meet other people, have different experiences. This is my advice and an encouragement to lead by lifting each other up. 

And going to the next one, I encourage people to stay true to their values as they go on this path of discovery and developing their leadership. I have been in places where probably my strong passion and my interests were not so welcomed I didn't make myself smaller to fit in. And that really worked in the end because people appreciated it. Sometimes people appreciate you very quietly and they will tell you later.

That's enough for me. If you want to change the world. You just need to change one person's world. That's a world. You've changed the world. So stay true to your values. 

And finally again, inspired by my experience from traveling from Romania, but also all the other activities and places I've visited and groups I've been part of. I encourage people to go visit places their peers haven't visited. And again, go somewhere where you think, Oh, I'm not sure how I'm going to benefit from it. I promise you there is something attracting you to that place and you will benefit from it. 

It's quite strongly related to my passion for women's rights. I went to a human rights course recently in London, and that was sponsored by Council of Europe. And I connected with so many young people that I wouldn't otherwise have connected or been in the same room with. And that benefited me beyond any idea I had. I thought we'd learn about some human rights, which is so great, fantastic to learn about it. But actually putting myself there expanded my universe tenfold. So I encourage people to do that. 

Anni Townend: Thank you, Delia. I feel that our conversation is an expanding conversation, one which will help people expand their universe and want to know more. But before we get to how best for people to contact you, there is one final question that I have, which is, what's the conversation as a result of our conversation today that you're going to have?

And who with?

Delia Lazaroiu: Oh, I have so many groups I'm part of in different capacity. And I think for each of them, there will be something else to take from this conversation. It's like having a jug of water and pouring in different glasses. That's how I feel about it.

So to my group at DWP in the Aspire group we are going to unpack a lot of the themes we talked today but some specific ones that are relevant to what we're usually talking and how we're supporting each other. 

And then there are different way of unpacking this conversation, for example, to my partner which has a different path than I do. But he very much appreciates when I bring this insight. 

Anni Townend: Thank you, Delia. And when you find your word for 2025, do share your word on LinkedIn, where I know you're very active. Is that the best place? And what is your LinkedIn profile? How do people connect with you there? 

Delia Lazaroiu: Yes, I always encourage people to find me there. My name there is Delia Lazoroiu. You'll find me there and just drop me a message. I'll always be there to respond.

Anni Townend: And I can vouch for that. You are so amazing at engaging with people and connecting with people and I know that you will.

So I encourage anybody who's listening to reach out to you to have a conversation with you before I come to say thank you to you. 

I just want to invite people to listen to other Leaders in Conversation with me, Anni Townend. Delia, you said you'd listened to many, if not all, and how well held you felt each of the guests had been.

Do you have a favorite episode that you would recommend to people? 

Delia Lazaroiu: I do have a favorite episode, I can't remember everybody's name because there are so many fantastic people who spoke with you, but I do know that wonderful woman was from Netherlands, 

Anni Townend:Carien Borst. 

Delia Lazaroiu: Yes, and she was speaking about creativity.

And as I was listening to it, I actually took my phone out and I took some notes and my notes were, I cannot work in places where they don't allow me to have my creative self. And I just reflected over my creative self. I think that was a great episode because usually we speak about leadership. I speak about data a lot. We touch on different themes, but creativity doesn't always come in that shape where somebody just gives you that and ask you, what's your creative self? What inspires you to be creative? And that episode allowed me to step into this mindset and look at certain drawers of myself that I haven't looked in.

Anni Townend: Thank you. That was lovely to hear. And I love the metaphor of a cupboard with drawers and that there are some that you know exactly what's in them and others that maybe you have never opened. And maybe others that you've never opened and actually you've kept locked and lost the key.

So you may have to go and find the key to open those drawers. And that very much fits with my philosophy around leaders becoming more of themselves. How can we help each other to become more? And it's lovely to hear that Carien helped you to open more drawers and bring more creativity to your leadership and to your data analyst work.

Delia Lazaroiu: Oh, really is. And that's data analysis and really this discussion with Coco, the fantastic woman who's doing your sound for the podcast, made me realize that patterns is how I work. And there's so much creativity in patterns, isn't it? And she was speaking about her patterns in music. And that's why I'm attracted to data because there are clear patterns there, but you can keep developing and growing and discovering new things and then just having the solutions for the rest and just returning very quickly on the point of creativity. 

Also that's why it's very important to go out there and speak with people that you would not speak with normally and go in places you would not normally be, because that's when some people open certain drawers in yourself that you are not able to do it alone or in just your comfortable group of friends

Anni Townend: That's a lovely note to close on, so an encouragement there to what to open some of the drawers that you may not yet have opened and have other people help you to do that through mixing with different people with diverse voices.

Thank you for sharing your voice today. Thank you for mentioning Coco O'Brien, who I'd also like to thank for the wonderful intro and outro music, which she created for the lovely design and excellent editing and sound production podcast. To contact me, Anni Townend, do visit me on my website, annitownend.com. 

Email me on anni@annitownend.com subscribe to my newsletter, subscribe to Substack and of course follow me on LinkedIn. 

Thank you for listening and thank you Delia so much for sharing your leadership story. 

Delia Lazaroiu: Thank you so much Anni. It's been lovely being on the podcast with you.

Anni Townend: Thank you.